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CranBerry NY
07-09-2005, 12:28 AM
The Roads to Peace

The roads to peace are paths of war,

The gentle dove will leave her scar.


The moral men to say the least,

Will kill us all to get their peace.


The roads that lead to victories gained,

Are filled with people full of pain.


Only our Creator knew,

We’d kill so many to save so few.


The recent terrorist tragedy in London is disheartening. Once again some nefarious force has seen fit to totally disregard innocent human life in pursuit of a vile agenda that few of us know and even fewer could understand. The response of the world leaders assembled in Edinburgh for the G-8 Summit is perhaps more disheartening, as it promises more of the misguided policies that have proven so ineffective in prosecuting the war on terror. The leaders of the Western powers continue to imply that they will fight violence with more violence of their own. If current events are any indicator of future developments, such a policy will only serve to beget yet more terrorism.

This is a war being guided on both sides by self-righteous hypocrites whose motives and proclamations mirror each other. Each side sees God as being exclusively with them. That being the case, the restraint and judiciousness urged by Christian and Islamic theology to guide the execution of war is cast aside with wanton impunity. Each side manipulates a vulnerable public to create a climate that allows for the perpetuation and the inevitable escalation of the ongoing slaughter. Each side reserves the right to use the spectacle of indiscriminate violence to “Shock and Awe” the opposition, yet will deny that its tactics can be described as terrorism. Each side sees their civilian population as hapless, innocent victims, while the suffering innocent civilians on the other side are acceptable collateral damage.

There will never be any real progress in ending this terror war, until we realize that we have all become collateral damage, unacceptable collateral damage. That being the case, there is no they or we in this affair. We are they and they are we. When a child in New York never sees his mother again because she was crushed in a collapsed tower at the World Trade Center, we all have suffered an irreplaceable loss. When an impoverished family in Afghanistan is bombed from the face of the Earth by a misguided missile, something of our collective humanity is destroyed by the blast. When a child in Iraq is born with gross birth defects due to his mother’s exposure to depleted uranium, we have all been deformed. When London commuters fear ever again entering the underground, because of the ill-advised actions of a handful of desperate fanatics, their insecurity touches us all.

We, the collaterally damaged, will continue to exist in a state of dehumanizing loss, deformity, and insecurity until we rise up, unite, and refuse to support at any level the policies of leaders who continually fail to heed one of the surest of all political lessons: killing innocent civilians will never lead to a positive outcome for the transgressing party. This realization is the first meaningful salvo anyone could fire in a real war on terror. However, as long as we are not as moved by the suffering of innocent civilians anywhere as we are by the suffering of those close to us, it will be a salvo that remains unfired.


Imam Zaid Shakir

7/7/05

BintFozi
07-10-2005, 01:37 AM
Sometimes, we get so caught up in blaming one another for all the unjust acts against our own people that we forget the worth of a human life. We forget that the death of an innocent Muslim is the same as the death of an innocent Buddhist or innocent Christian or an innocent Jew. For every brick and barrier Islam breaks down we put up ten bricks and ten barriers between ourselves because we become forgetful of all that our Creator has taught us in His beautiful deen-- that to take one life is to take the life of the whole of humanity, and injustice is injustice no matter who it's against and must be condemned.

It's not about we or they, it's about humanity as a whole and taking a stand for justice, even if it's against yourself. Unless and until we realize this we will continue to hurt to prevent hurt, takes lives to save lives, destroy to liberate. And by letting all these injustices pass us by without speaking out against them we, as Muslims, as members of humanity will have done our part to continue this endless, vicious cycle of violence, hate and death.

MostafaAli
07-11-2005, 02:06 PM
When a child in New York never sees his mother again because she was crushed in a collapsed tower at the World Trade Center, we all have suffered an irreplaceable loss. When an impoverished family in Afghanistan is bombed from the face of the Earth by a misguided missile, something of our collective humanity is destroyed by the blast.


His argument of moral equivalence is disgusting.

This is a war being guided on both sides by self-righteous hypocrites whose motives and proclamations mirror each other. Each side sees God as being exclusively with them.

What the heck is he talking about here? His lies are embarrasing to us all.

CranBerry NY
07-28-2005, 04:00 PM
His argument of moral equivalence is disgusting.

This is really sad- If someone stands up for what's right and has the open mind to condemn whatever's wrong, how is that disgusting? It's your argument that is incomprehensible...I don't understand why you would say that...

On a different note, can you try to have an open mind and understand what Islam stands for? It is true but sad what so many people are doing in the name of Islam- tarnishing the name of Islam by doing acts that go against by its very laws-
And if someone like Imam Zaid Shakir is showing us the importance and honor humanity as a whole is given, please don't try to put it under your microscope of "Islam is bad" or "all Muslims are bad" and shun the good in other people.

dlolling1
08-16-2005, 04:50 PM
My guess is that premeditated murder is not the same as an accident.

Or maybe you think it is?

DSMuslimah
08-17-2005, 02:42 AM
My guess is that premeditated murder is not the same as an accident.

Or maybe you think it is?

I think the majority of us here (as the thread indicates) Do Not believe premeditated murder is the same as an accident, and as has been stated by those before, premeditated murder is not something Islam condones.

dlolling1
08-17-2005, 11:51 AM
But doesn't a sura like 4:89 -

They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them


tell muslims to kill disbelievers "wherever ye find them"?

HijabiQT
08-17-2005, 02:56 PM
Assalaamualaikum,

sister/ brother, please dont quote any ayat out of context.. look at the ayat before and after and Insha'Allah you will get ur answer.
The circumstance of this verse is at the time of war - the battle of Uhud when the hypocrites were spreading mischief on the ranks of the muslim army.

88: Why should ye be devided into two parties about the hypocrites?
Allah hath cast them off for their deeds.
Would ye guide those whome Allah hath thrown out of the way?
For those whom Allah hath thrown out of the way, never shalt thou find the way.

89: They but wish that ye should reject faith,
As they do, and thus be on the same footing (as them):
so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (flee from wht is forbidden)
But if they turn renegades, sieze them and slay them whereever ye find them; and take no friends or helpers from their ranks:-

90: Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you or fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Alah hath opened no way for you (to war against them).

Only if the disbeleivers attack, the command to sieze them and slay them comes into action.. if they make peace or leave without causing further curruption, the beleivers were/ are not allowed to harm anyone.

And Allah knows best.